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Thread: How to play PLD

  1. #1
    Zumi is offline I totally want to tank Genbu in a wedding dress <3 Posting Dynamis Lord
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    How to play PLD

    Ok so yesterdays Jailer of Love was pretty bad. So I would like to hear how would you play PLD differently? There seemed to be a lot of people who think they know everything about PLD. I didn't really do anything all that different from other Jailer of Loves. So not sure what the problem is.

    I am more open to new ideas then some people think. But in making up new macros honestly I wouldn't even know where to begin.

  2. #2
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    Izzy is offline go summon a sandwich so you can gain some weight FAG Posting Dynamis Lord
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    I know you didn't do anything differently, but in the past we had an army of BLM to kill adds and people on the outside ready to go. In that case, what we lacked in efficiency was made up by what we had in numbers. With less people, it's important that we're doing everything we can to get the most out of our jobs.

    My PLD is 68, so I can't really say what gear choices you should be using at 75, but I do know PLD should have macro sets for the following actions:

    1) Enmity/Haste set for Flash/Voke/Cures
    2) Fast cast/Haste/-Interruption gear for Utsusemi
    3) Idle set that incorporates refresh/-damage taken gear
    4) A heal cheat macro that adds HP, then takes it away so you can be healing yourself for hate even when you're not taking damage

    Based on the gear you have, you should build your macros around this. I don't know how you feel about talking to Neosutra about this, but he's got macros for everything under the sun. While you don't plan on using windower macros, you can still incorporate some of his ideas into your macros that you plan on making.


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    Woo! The kind of thread I live for! I'm just going to talk about HNM stuff, not low man stuff like Nyzul or Limbus or w/e.

    Subjob choices:
    I'd say 9/10 fights your choice of SJ is usually Ninja. This is pretty much for any fight where stuff is going to physically hit you on a regular basis. The rest of the fights, specifically stuff like Ouryu or JoL, a RDM sub is better. Basically most of the damage you'll be taking is magic, and since you're not meleeing and not being meleed, there's no spamming atonement. So you need more tools on building hate.

    Generating Hate:
    So anything you can melee and atonement, it's pretty trivial to generate hate. But even then, using your MP is important. Every PLD should have a cure cheat macro, preferrably one that doesn't blink you. Something like equip two astral rings, then equip a gigant mantle and a BQ ring, then cure 3 yourself. That's just one example of how you can do it, and if you're willing to blink (which isn't that bad, because if you're cure cheating, you're at full health and likely ok) it's even easier. Another thing you should always be doing is looking for anyone to cure. Especially RDMs who just converted, that's like a jackpot. If you're tanking with another PLD, I try not to cure them too much though, unless I'm really far behind on hate or they're HP is getting low and they just got interrupted.
    /RDM: If you're doing a fight where you can sub RDM (or DRK if you don't have RDM), then holding hate is so much easier. You get to add Dispel, Bind, and Blind to your spell rotation and those alone greatly boost your hate generation. You also get MDB for better survivability, and you get Fast Cast which lets you cure yourself a bit faster, and lowers your recast time on stuff like Flash.

    Gearing up:
    /NIN: Haste is important to try to keep your shadows up. It's also important to use when casting Flash, so you can cast it again sooner. If you're meleeing, people swear by using a Joyeuse now just for TP gain and using Atonement. You should also swap into shield skill gear for times when your shadows are down, or just for casting Ichi. But it's probably wise to not build that into your Ichi casting macro, because you don't want to blink at a bad time. Actually, I'm sure most people know how to gear up /NIN, it's not really that odd.
    /RDM: So this is a bit less mainstream. For fights like JoL and Ouryu, you have different kinds of gear sets for different times. Because both of those fights are /extremely/ predictable. And you can blink like it's going out of style. Good weapon choices: Iron Ram Lance (it's a goddamn defending ring that's dirt cheap), Templar Mace, Mac+1. For JoL, you can just idle in the IRL (ha!) and swap to weapon+shield for adds. Or you could just swap to the IRL when a spell is about to be cast. You can use Sentinel easily every other summon, so it kind of makes them a joke as long as every blm isn't asleep.


    Enough on generic stuff. I guess I'll talk about JoL directly since that's what this thread was started about. JoL is dumb. It'll cast something every x number of seconds, and summon adds every y seconds. And that's the fight from start to finish. Surviving is a joke, and there's only two ways you should ever die.
    1) Summons are on you and JoL hits you with a big spell for a 1-2 punch. This kind of death is the healers fault. Whenever stuff is summoned, you have 3 things hitting you, so getting off a cure on yourself shouldn't be expected. And if they see JoL casting a Thundaga III after it summons, they should try to prop you up to full HP. Just overcuring when there's summons is a good idea in the rare timing of two hour from JoL.
    2) It melees you to death. This is your fault. If you're standing at the right range, then it'll just use the boost TP move, and never draw you in.

    So now that you're staying alive with no problems, the next very important thing is holding hate! So before the fight you can run around and build up 300 TP or something close to it. And to start on JoL, just blow all your MP, cure cheat, spam spells, etc etc. It's still not that easy to use up all your MP considering how much refresh PLDs have. But eventually you'll get rid of it, and can use chivalry and then you can start doing all the weapon swaps. But you'll have gotten yourself a nice solid amount of hate. You should be able to pretty much solo tank the whole fight, so if your co-tanks can't keep up, don't worry too much. Multiple tanks are there just to try to keep each other near the hate cap, because you don't want after every ga spells for a BLM to get drawn in.

    And... off to lunch. I'll let you read this stuff and comment and stuff!

  4. #4
    Izzy's Avatar
    Izzy is offline go summon a sandwich so you can gain some weight FAG Posting Dynamis Lord
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    1) Summons are on you and JoL hits you with a big spell for a 1-2 punch. This kind of death is the healers fault.
    This is also another key point. Healers need to be on the ball as well. For example, if you're a WHM and you see JoL casting Thundaga III, don't fucking be surprised when your tanks HP drops all of a sudden then panic. Anticipate when the spell is going to hit the PLD, and start casting before it goes off. Same for Phuabo spawns. A PLD should never ever die from JoL casting a ga spell, or from regular spawn attacks.

    The only time you're pretty fucked, is if JoL Astral Flows after a pet spawn and all 3 pets Tail Thrust/what the fuck ever you at the same time and you take more than your HP in damage.


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    Oh I want to mention something about 3 pets on the pld, 1-2 punch bit: Usually I start casting NI or Ichi before I even see one shadow taken off when I see three pets heading to my direction. It usually helps because by the time your cast is off, all three of your shadows are gone lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Izzy View Post
    The only time you're pretty fucked, is if JoL Astral Flows after a pet spawn and all 3 pets Tail Thrust/what the fuck ever you at the same time and you take more than your HP in damage.
    Yeah, you can get near insta-gibbed by this, but if you try to save Sentinel for summons and your healers are overhealing you a bit, it shouldn't be a problem. You can also use reprisal for summons as well, so you'll almost certainly shield block the TP moves. But even if one tank dies to this it's doesn't matter because it won't happen often at all during the fight, and we don't have people solo tanking it.

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    Geez Sci why are you such a PRICK I'm so sick of your SHIT !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartuc View Post
    Geez Sci why are you such a PRICK I'm so sick of your SHIT !!!
    Can't even waste any words on something as worthless as a Tuc post.
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    Hihi! Uber (Vythee) pointed me at this thread and as a PLD fanatic, I thought i'd drop a line (Other than my usual sign up!).

    Scionith pretty much nailed it on the head with how variable it is on almost.. every.. single.. fight.

    I have sets for every thing under the damn sun.

    Idle - usually what you always see me in

    Flash - few enmity pieces macro in, i try not to blink but lately i've caved into it.

    Sentinel - AF2 feet for further damage reduction + Full enmity. AF2 feet do not need to stay on during Sent.

    Shield Bash - Full enmity + some +BASH items (Knightly and AF2 gloves)

    Rampart - I focus on VIT, then enmity.

    Chivalry - Full MND. I have yet to test if this even provides enmity so. Currently sitting at +40ish MND giving me almost 340 MP at 120ish TP

    Ichi - Shield+ gear then Fast cast. Haste isnt a huge issue because its already a 30 second timer.

    Self Cure - As Scionith said, Cure three, maybe even a Cure four cheat is a god-send. I can sit there and spam Cure 3 on myself for 192 each time, i get 300+ on my Cure 4's. If im topped, its Cure 3, if im below 1100 HP, its Cure4

    I do use windower macros, most importantly, spellcast. So it's not a big issue for myself to swap out large amounts of gear. But as stated above thats just my JA's and magic. I have Earth, Fire and Air resist sets, as well as full Magic Def. Bonus sets.

    http://www.ffxiah.com/player.php?id=1017635#home // If you're curious about my gear choises. I use the new ACP body with Fast cast and Enmity now in all sets other than Resist/Magic Def.

    In regards to the JoL thingy, i just noticed your GAs we're hitting JoL, which was throwing off hate, esp after the tanks being hit with Tier 3 GAs and possibly melee hits from the pet, dropping their over all enmity to the bottom of the hate list.

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    I manage to get by fine without windower myself. It'd take me a while to remember how to use my fire resist gear on Ninja again, I remember it took me 3 macros to do all the swaps in just one direction.

    ib4LOLBLMsJOL
    Ga spells hitting JoL is actually bonus damage! As a BLM you actually try to make sure not to Ga the current element of JoL so you don't heal it. For the part of the fight I was there though, BLMs were pulling hate just off of random errant ga spells hitting JoL, which is... bad. Since they were only being cast when there were summons. And the damage is being split on 4 targets so its far lower than direct spell casting.

    And a BLM pulling hate isn't the end of the world as long as they know to just position themselves like a tank until an actual tank regains hate. (Or the BLM can decide to tank!) This is of course assuming boosts are being properly dispelled. Otherwise the BLM is likely to be one shotted.

  11. #11
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    Been meaning to add to this before, with that JoL run moreso than the Ultima preceding it I noticed my inexperience with tanking without the fallback of provoke even more, while i had multiple enmity swaps, haste swaps that avoid causing blinking and a full HP+ macro, I lacked the experience or outside the box thinking to have known about the &quot;Cure cheat&quot; while also not blinking well in advance. I've done a fair amount of tanking as nin, and i felt that in both cases on Pld/nin when hate was on me I handled it well, and in neither case died to general melee/TP moves, usually some combination of spell/tp/AF Phaubo. My downfall was my ability to maintain hate and regain hate outside of attempting to cure others in low HP around me/flash.

    Gear wise i'm pretty well off for the job minus an effective post AF Enmity body and was more a matter of strategy/and not really doing much on pld beyond xp/Bc level stuff.

    Rethinking my approach on strategy and macro's for these /nin situations and over the course of time inserting myself on pld during far less crucial sitiations till i feel i have the experience neccesary so its not another learn-on-the-job scenario from myself.

  12. #12
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    Don't forget to provoke and crank up the Doobie Brothers before the fight start.
    Code:
    while (food && awake) {
    mob = xp_party.puller().pull();
    xp_party.kill(mob);
    
    }

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    I was probably causing you a number of hate issues as well Zendell. I was curing a little more than I should of on Rdm, especially when you add the dispels, hastes, medication spells, and Dia3 up over time. Had I been on whm, with a bit more -emnity gear, and cure 5 I would have given you less issue I think. I will make sure to lay back a bit on curing next time around if I am Rdm/Whm again. So yeah....sorry about that >.<
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  14. #14
    Zumi is offline I totally want to tank Genbu in a wedding dress <3 Posting Dynamis Lord
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    PLD Macros, I came up with macros based on these sets to swap the approate gear in. So now almost every action has a gear swap. Wanted as few sets as possible to keep it more simple. Anyone got any ideas?

    Idel / TP gear - used for Tping and meeling
    main - Excalibur
    sub - Koenig Shield
    ammo - Fenir's Stone
    head - Askar Zucchetto
    neck - Fortitude Torque
    left ear- Ethereal Earring
    right ear - Suppanomimi
    body - Ares's Cuirass
    hands - Homam Manopolas
    left ring - Sattva Ring
    right ring - Ulthalam's Ring
    back - Shadow Mantle
    waist - Velocious Belt
    legs - Homam Cosciales
    feet - Homam Gambieras

    Haste Set - Macro this stuff in for casting Utsusemi 1/2
    main - Excalibur
    sub - Koenig Shield
    ammo - Fenir's Stone
    head - Askar Zucchetto
    neck - Fortitude Torque
    left ear- Ethereal Earring
    right ear - Suppanomimi - Looking to get that fast cast earring
    body - Nuevo Coselete (5 fastcast and 5 enmity)
    hands - Homam Manopolas
    left ring - Sattva Ring
    right ring - Ulthalam's Ring
    back - Shadow Mantle
    waist - Velocious Belt
    legs - Homam Cosciales
    feet - Homam Gambieras

    Enmity set macro in for Cures, Flash, shield bash, sentinel, rampart, voke, atonement
    main - Excalibur
    sub - Koenig Shield
    ammo - Fenir's Stone
    head - Bahamut's Mask
    neck - Ritter Gorget
    left ear- Ethereal Earring (don't really want to pay 4m for +2 enmity earrings)
    right ear - Suppanomimi
    body - Nuevo Coselete (5 fastcast and 5 enmity)
    hands - Vlr. Gauntlets +1
    left ring - Sattva Ring
    right ring - Hercules' Ring
    back - Valor Cape
    waist - Warwolf Belt
    legs - Valor Breeches
    feet - Vlr. Leggings +1

    Weapon skill set - for all WS that aren't atonement
    main - Excalibur
    sub - Koenig Shield
    ammo - Fenir's Stone
    head - Hecatomb Cap
    neck- Fortitude Torque
    left ear - Ethereal Earring
    right ear - Suppanomimi
    body - Ares's Cuirass
    hands - Hecatomb Mittens
    left ring - Sattva Ring
    right ring - Ulthalam's Ring
    back - Forager's Mantle
    waist - Warwolf Belt
    legs - Valor Breeches
    feet - Hct. Leggings

  15. #15
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    Idle neck should be a Parade Gorget. If you miss the attack so much, you can change your back for a Forager's Mantle or Cerb Mantle.

    You could macro in a Hospitaler Earring for cures.

    For Flash, your haste set is probably better than your enmity set.

    It'd be nice if you'd make a basic MDB set. For fights like Ouryu or Tiamat or JoL. A Lamian Kaman, Lamia Mantle+1, Askar Feet, and maybe the -mag dmg rings would be a good start for one. An Iron Ram Lance is pretty nice as well.

    Maybe a Shield Torque and Boxer's Mantle for casting Utsusemi? I don't see much of anything giving you +Shield skill, so even with full shield merits, you won't block as much as you should. This is just when casting Ichi, having a good deal of shield skill will prevent interrupts.

    I'd make a lot more suggestions but I know you're trying to keep it simple.

  16. #16
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    I didn't think swapping visual gear that many times during fight is a very good idea, is it?
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  17. #17
    Izzy's Avatar
    Izzy is offline go summon a sandwich so you can gain some weight FAG Posting Dynamis Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxfai View Post
    I didn't think swapping visual gear that many times during fight is a very good idea, is it?
    Maybe with the WHM you play with, but I for one don't suck at FFXI. If a WHM has such a problem, they can turn BlinkMeNot on.

    Hell, at this point does it really matter if Zumi is blinking or not? He has gearsets now!


  18. #18
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    Well, if your tanks (rarely in endgame events do you just get one tank per party... usually its a WHM for a whole tank party), are blinking out of control make macros for each individual. as a whm you should only really be using Cure III and IV. V is a ridiculous MP luxury which really isnt necessary, theres so many healers in end game, and most likely a couple of those have their eye on the same person your healing or is already casting the same cure III that you are. you can also make macro sets for the important spells, silena, paralyna, etc; gotta know what the mobs are casting so you know what ailments to cast, esuna makes it a lot easier now too. you can also try the f1-f6 keys, but i still find my way 10 times easier. just thought i'd put my 2 gils in >.>;
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